tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post4954998715764585922..comments2023-12-17T13:05:30.543-08:00Comments on Brane Space: Do We Still Need To Believe In "Hell"? Uh...NO!Copernicushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16699554476216140859noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-30225759387447065032020-05-05T04:55:38.265-07:002020-05-05T04:55:38.265-07:00And do you think it would be possible to exist a s...And do you think it would be possible to exist a similar "afterlife" to the one here proposed but with individualized thinking and consciousness of the self(since in the "afterlife" we talked about there wouldn't be survival of the "self")?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-20842622131661702252020-05-05T04:48:05.129-07:002020-05-05T04:48:05.129-07:00Im sorry if I wont be able to express myself prope...Im sorry if I wont be able to express myself properly since english is not my first language, but if this "afterlife" would be something new wouldn't we be able to "observe" or detect some type of wave field getting bigger everyday, since so many people die everyday?<br />And I suppose since this would be something new than you dont believe this waves could "go into someone else" in some kind of reincarnation, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-8151147936367734752020-05-04T22:58:26.292-07:002020-05-04T22:58:26.292-07:00"One last question, if this "afterlife&q..."One last question, if this "afterlife" happens to be true, do you think it is the same as before we were born, or is "something new"?"<br /><br /><br />I would lean to the idea it is something new. Copernicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699554476216140859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-14373578344141770042020-05-04T22:51:18.158-07:002020-05-04T22:51:18.158-07:00There clearly could not be any "individuated&...There clearly could not be any "individuated" awareness of state - only a holistic awareness, but god only know what that means. The problem was so formidable that Bohm in his book (pp. 39-60) believed an entirely novel language has to be devised to try to deal with the implicate order and holistic reality. He called his novel language the "rheommode". Hence, in his introduction to the specific topic of language he writes:<br /><br />"In the previous chapter it has been pointed out that our thought<br />is fragmented, mainly by our taking it for an image or model of<br />‘what the world is’. The divisions in thought are thus given<br />disproportionate importance, as if they were a widespread and<br />pervasive structure of independently existent actual breaks in<br />‘what is’, rather than merely convenient features of description<br />and analysis. Such thought was shown to bring about a thoroughgoing<br />confusion that tends to permeate every phase of life,<br />and that ultimately makes impossible the solution of individual<br />and social problems. We saw the urgent need to end this confusion,<br />through giving careful attention to the one-ness of the<br />content of thought and he actual process of thinking which<br />produces this content."<br /><br />He then delves into the rheomode, viz.<br /><br />"Suddenly to invent a whole new language implying a radically<br />different structure of thought is, however, clearly not practicable.<br />What can be done is provisionally and experimentally to introduce<br />a new mode of language. Thus, we already have, for example,<br />different moods of the verb, such as the indicative, the subjunctive,<br />the imperative, and we develop skill in the use of language<br />so that each of these moods functions, when it is required,<br />without the need for conscious choice. Similarly, we will now<br />consider a mode in which movement is to be taken as primary in<br />our thinking and in which this notion will be incorporated into<br />the language structure by allowing the verb rather than the noun<br />38 wholeness and the implicate order<br />to play a primary role. As one develops such a mode and works<br />with it for a while, one may obtain the necessary skill in using it,<br />so that it will also come to function whenever it is required,<br />without the need for conscious choice.<br />For the sake of convenience we shall give this mode a name,<br />i.e. the rheomode (‘rheo’ is from a Greek verb, meaning ‘to flow’).<br />At least in the first instance the rheomode will be an experiment<br />in the use of language, concerned mainly with trying to find out<br />whether it is possible to create a new structure that is not so<br />prone toward fragmentation as is the present one. Evidently,<br />then, our inquiry will have to begin by emphasizing the role of<br />language in shaping our overall world views as well as in<br />expressing them more precisely in the form of general philosophical<br />ideas. For as suggested in the previous chapter these<br />world views and their general expressions (which contain tacit<br />conclusions about everything, including nature, society, ourselves,<br />our language, etc.) are now playing a key role in helping<br />to originate and sustain fragmentation in every aspect of life. So<br />we will start by using the rheomode mainly in an experimental<br />way. As already pointed out, to do this implies giving a kind of<br />careful attention to how thought and language actually work,<br />which goes beyond a mere consideration of their content"<br /><br />The chapter gives a fascinating insight into Bohm's mind and how he wrestled with the issue of describing a holistic entity via a fragmented language. At root, the takeaway I got was that even talking about "awareness" in an implicate order reality implies the ability to actually think in the rheomode. Not that any of us - as explicated beings - have achieved anything thus far. (And even Bohm admitted the limitations)<br /><br />Copernicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699554476216140859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-47996567519489650902020-05-04T19:23:39.688-07:002020-05-04T19:23:39.688-07:00And by the way since there would be no individual ...And by the way since there would be no individual thoughts like we know them, then there wouldn't be any awareness of the state that we would be in, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-30413585673858095812020-05-04T19:16:24.587-07:002020-05-04T19:16:24.587-07:00One last question, if this "afterlife" h...One last question, if this "afterlife" happens to be true, do you think it is the same as before we were born, or is "something new"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-38287526130678105822020-05-04T14:54:15.244-07:002020-05-04T14:54:15.244-07:00Thoughts imply a degree of individuality, or indiv...Thoughts imply a degree of individuality, or individual consciousness, hence there would not be thoughts as we recognize or identify them. Again, given we are explicated beings trying to imagine what implicate beings would experience (as "thoughts"0 it's a bit like discussing how many angels inhabit the tip of a pin.Copernicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699554476216140859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-22428564016149158982020-05-04T14:49:34.447-07:002020-05-04T14:49:34.447-07:00But do you think there would be any thoughts? Or y...But do you think there would be any thoughts? Or you have no concrete opinion on this question?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-15637304677780535712020-05-04T12:15:35.654-07:002020-05-04T12:15:35.654-07:00The simplest hypothesis - which I actually subscri...The simplest hypothesis - which I actually subscribe to (see y post of Feb. 9, 2014)is that no afterlife exists, period. When you die it's curtains, nothingness, as if in perpetual general anesthesia. The next simplest hypothesis is the de Broglie nonlocal wave state enabling a rudimentary consciousness, though I'm not even sure such entity makes sense given our current language limitations. Again, this is not my "theory", but more or less articulated by others who drew applicable inferences from research by Stuart Hameroff - a former anesthesiologist- and physicist David Bohm ('Wholeness and the Implicate Order')<br /><br />For sure, it is doubtful one would even acknowledge one is in an afterlife if in an implicate order, as Bohm describes it. By the same token, it is impossible (imho) for an exolicated being to describe what an implicate existence would be like. But if you read Bohm's book it will definitely provide more extensive insights than I can impart in a blog comment.Copernicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699554476216140859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6301096656497422535.post-75508964591630850542020-05-04T03:55:52.886-07:002020-05-04T03:55:52.886-07:00"If that is so, you cease to be a "perso..."If that is so, you cease to be a "person" or an individual identity and instead merge with other dispersed quantum wave forms (I have called them "B-waves" or de Broglie waves) to enter an "oceanic" state."<br /><br />So according to your theory there would be no perception of what is going on in that "afterlife", right?<br />And by the way what do you think that rudimental consciousness would be like? Do you think there would be any thoughts? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com